Journals of the Senate
53 Elizabeth II, A.D. 2004, Canada
Journals of the Senate
3rd Session, 37th Parliament
Issue 27
Tuesday, March 30, 2004
2:00 p.m.
The Honourable Daniel Hays, Speaker
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Banks, Beaudoin, Biron, Bryden, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chaput, Christensen, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Day, De Bané, Di Nino, Doody, Downe, Eyton, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Graham, Gustafson, Harb, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Joyal, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, Kroft, LaPierre, Lapointe, Lavigne, Lawson, LeBreton, Léger, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Massicotte, Meighen, Mercer, Merchant, Moore, Morin, Munson, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Phalen, Plamondon, Poulin (Charette), Poy, Prud'homme, Ringuette, Rivest, Robertson, Robichaud, Roche, Rompkey, St. Germain, Sibbeston, Smith, Sparrow, Stollery, Stratton, Tkachuk, Trenholme Counsell, Watt
The Members in attendance to business were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Banks, Beaudoin, Biron, Bryden, *Buchanan, Callbeck, *Carney, Carstairs, Chaput, Christensen, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Day, De Bané, Di Nino, Doody, Downe, Eyton, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Graham, Gustafson, Harb, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Joyal, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, Kroft, LaPierre, Lapointe, Lavigne, Lawson, LeBreton, Léger, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Massicotte, Meighen, Mercer, Merchant, Moore, Morin, Munson, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Phalen, Plamondon, Poulin (Charette), Poy, Prud'homme, Ringuette, Rivest, Robertson, Robichaud, Roche, Rompkey, St. Germain, Sibbeston, Smith, Sparrow, *Spivak, Stollery, Stratton, Tkachuk, Trenholme Counsell, Watt
PRAYERS
SENATORS' STATEMENTS
Some Honourable Senators made statements.
DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS
Tabling of Documents
With leave of the Senate,
The Honourable Senator Hays tabled the following:
Report of the Parliamentary Delegation, led by the Speaker of the Senate, that travelled to the United Kingdom and in particular to the House of Lords, from December 2 to 7, 2003. —Sessional Paper No. 3/37-124S.
Report of the Parliamentary Delegation, led by the Speaker of the Senate, that travelled to Slovenia from January 27 to 31, 2004. —Sessional Paper No. 3/37-125S.
Report of the Parliamentary Delegation, led by the Speaker of the Senate, that travelled to Germany, and in particular to the Bundesrat, from January 24 to 27, 2004.—Sessional Paper No. 3/37-126S.
The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., tabled the following:
The March 2004 Report of the Auditor General of Canada to the House of Commons, pursuant to the Auditor General Act, S.C. 1995, c. 43, s. 3.—Sessional Paper No. 3/37-127.
Presentation of Reports from Standing or Special Committees
The Honourable Senator Murray, P.C., Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance, presented its Seventh Report (Bill C-27, An Act for granting to Her Majesty certain sums of money for the public service of Canada for the financial year ending March 31, 2005, without amendment).
With leave of the Senate,
The Honourable Senator Day moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Christensen, that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a third reading later this day.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Honourable Senator Kenny, Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence tabled its Third Report entitled: National Emergencies: Canada's Fragile Front Lines (Volumes 1-3).—Sessional Paper No. 3/ 37-128S.
The Honourable Senator Kenny moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Furey, that the Report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Government Notices of Motions
With leave of the Senate,
The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Gill:
That, notwithstanding the Order adopted by the Senate on February 23, 2004, when the Senate sits tomorrow, Wednesday, March 31, 2004, it do adjourn after the proceedings on Royal Assent are completed;
That should a vote be deferred today until 5:30 p.m. tomorrow, the vote will take place immediately after Royal Assent, following a fifteen minute bell, after which the Senate will adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Bills
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Austin, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., for the third reading of Bill C-4, An Act to amend the Parliament of Canada Act (Ethics Commissioner and Senate Ethics Officer) and other Acts in consequence,
And on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Bryden, seconded by the Honourable Senator Sparrow.
After debate,
A point of order was raised with respect to the general time limit on speeches.
Debate.
SPEAKER'S RULING
The rule is fairly straightforward. It has been quoted in full by Senator Kinsella. I shall not do that again; rather, I shall focus on the words of rule 37(4), which reads:
37(4) ...no Senator shall speak from more than fifteen minutes, inclusive of any question or comments from other Senators which the Senator may permit in the course of his or her remarks.
I read it that the word "question.'' — "which the Senator may permit in the course of his or her remarks'' — and the word "comments'' — "which the Senator may permit in the course of his or her remarks'' — have equal weight. Accordingly, if the senator who has the floor does not permit further comment or questions, then that is the end of the matter.
The Senate resumed debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Austin, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., for the third reading of Bill C-4, An Act to amend the Parliament of Canada Act (Ethics Commissioner and Senate Ethics Officer) and other Acts in consequence,
And on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Bryden, seconded by the Honourable Senator Sparrow, that the Bill be not now read a third time but that it be amended,
(a) on page 1, in the English version, by replacing the long title with the following:
"An Act to amend the Parliament of Canada Act (Ethics Commissioner and Senate Ethics Counsellor) and other Acts in consequence'';
(b) in clause 2,
(i) on page 1, by replacing lines 8 to 27 with the following:
"20.1 (1) Subject to subsection (2), the Senate shall, by resolution and with the consent of the leaders of all recognized parties in the Senate, appoint a Senate Ethics Counsellor.
(2) If the position of Senate Ethics Counsellor is vacant for 30 sitting days, the Senate shall, by resolution and after consultation with the leaders of all recognized parties in the Senate, appoint a Senate Ethics Counsellor.
20.2 The Senate Ethics Counsellor shall be a member in good standing of the bar of a province or the Chambre des notaires du Québec.
20.3 (1) The Senate Ethics Counsellor holds office during good behaviour for a term of seven years and may be removed for cause, with the consent of the leaders of all recognized parties in the Senate, by resolution of the Senate.
(2) The Senate Ethics Counsellor, on the expiration of a first or subsequent term of office, is eligible to be re- appointed for a further term not exceeding seven years.'',
(ii) on page 2, by deleting lines 1 to 49,
(iii) on page 3,
(A) by deleting lines 1 to 12,
(B) by replacing lines 13 to 18, with the following:
"20.4 (1) The Senate Ethics Counsellor shall assist members of the Senate by providing confidential advice with respect to any code of conduct adopted by the Senate for its members and shall perform the duties and functions assigned to the Senate Ethics Counsellor by the Senate.'', and
(C) by replacing line 43, with the following:
"20.5 (1) The Senate Ethics Counsellor, or any'',
(iv) on page 4, by deleting lines 16 to 24, and
(v) in the English version, by replacing the expression "Senate Ethics Officer'' with the expression "Senate Ethics Counsellor'' wherever it occurs;
(c) in clause 4, on page 7, by replacing line 8, with the following:
"72.06 For the purposes of sections 20.4,'';
(d) in clause 6, on page 11, by replacing lines 37 and 38, with the following:
"(d) the Ethics Commissioner'';
(e) in clause 7, on page 12, by replacing lines 7 and 8, with the following:
"any committee or member of either House or the Ethics Commis-'';
(f) in clause 8, on page 12,
(i) by replacing lines 14 and 15, with the following:
"(c) with respect to the Senate, the'', and
(ii) by replacing lines 28 and 29, with the following:
"Commons, Library of Parliament and office of'';
(g) in clause 9, on page 13, by replacing the heading before line 1, with the following:
"SENATE, HOUSE OF COMMONS, LIBRARY OF PARLIAMENT AND OFFICE OF
THE
ETHICS COMMISSIONER'';
(h) in clause 10, on page 13,
(i) by replacing line 7, with the following:
"ment'', and
(ii) by replacing lines 14 and 15, with the following:
"Parliament or office of the Ethics Commis-'';
(i) in clause 11, on page 13, by replacing lines 21 and 22 with the following:
"brary of Parliament and office of the Ethics Com-'';
(j) in clause 12,
(i) on page 13,
(A) by replacing line 30, with the following:
"Parliament'', and
(B) by replacing line 36, with the following:
"Parliament'', and
(ii) on page 14,
(A) by replacing line 3, with the following:
"ment or'',
(B) by replacing lines 6 and 7, with the following:
"of Commons, Library of Parliament or office of the'',
(C) by replacing line 12, with the following:
"ment or'',
(D) by replacing lines 16 and 17, with the following:
"House of Commons, Library of Parliament or office of'',
(E) by replacing lines 25 and 26, with the following:
"mons, Library of Parliament or office of the Ethics'',
(F) by replacing line 33, with the following:
"ment or'', and
(G) by replacing line 38, with the following:
"Parliament'';
(k) in clause 13,
(i) on page 14, by replacing lines 47 and 48, with the following:
"Commons, Library of Parliament or office of'', and
(ii) on page 15,
(A) by replacing lines 13 and 14, with the following:
"of Parliament or office of the Ethics Commis-'',
(B) by replacing lines 22 and 23, with the following:
"of Parliament or office of the Ethics'', and
(C) by replacing lines 35 and 36, with the following:
"ment or office of the Ethics Com-'';
(l) in clause 14,
(i) on page 15, by replacing lines 43 and 44, with the following:
"brary of Parliament or office of the Ethics Commis-'', and
(ii) on page 16, by replacing lines 6 and 7, with the following:
"Parliament or office of the Ethics Commission-'';
(m) in clause 15,
(i) on page 16,
(A) by replacing lines 14 and 15, with the following:
"House of Commons, Library of Parliament or office of ",
(B) by replacing lines 20 and 21, with the following:
"Library of Parliament or office of the Ethics Commis-'',
(C) by replacing line 29, with the following:
"ment or'',
(D) by replacing lines 34 and 35, with the following:
"House of Commons, Library of Parliament or office of'', and
(E) by replacing lines 41 and 42, with the following:
"brary of Parliament or office of the Ethics Commis-'', and
(ii) on page 17, by replacing line 1 with the following:
"ment or'';
(n) in clause 16, on page 17, by replacing lines 11 and 12, with the following:
"mons, Library of Parliament or office of the Ethics'';
(o) in clause 17, on page 17, by replacing lines 20 and 21, with the following:
"Library of Parliament or office of the Ethics Commis-'';
(p) in clause 18, on page 17, by replacing line 30, with the following:
"ment'';
(q) in clause 25, on page 20, by replacing lines 26 and 27, with the following:
"Library of Parliament or office of the'';
(r) in clause 26, on page 20, by replacing lines 36 and 37, with the following:
"(c.1) the office of the Ethics'';
(s) in clause 27, on page 21, by replacing line 9, with the following:
"Parliament'';
(t) in clause 28, on page 21,
(i) by replacing lines 20 and 21, with the following:
"Library of Parliament or office of the Ethics Commis-'', and
(ii) by replacing lines 28 and 29, with the following:
"Commons, Library of Parliament or office of the'';
(u) in clause 29, on page 22, by replacing lines 14 and 15, with the following:
"Commons, Library of Parliament and office of the Ethics'';
(v) in clause 30, on page 22, by replacing lines 24 and 25, with the following:
"Library of Parliament or office of the Ethics Com-'';
(w) in clause 31, on page 22, by replacing line 33, with the following:
"ment'';
(x) in clause 32, on page 22, by replacing lines 38 and 39, with the following:
"of Parliament or office of the Ethics Commissioner,'';
(y) in clause 33, on page 23,
(i) by replacing line 3, with the following:
"word "or'' at the end of paragraph (b), by adding the word "or'' at the end of paragraph (c) and'', and
(ii) by replacing lines 6 to 8, with the following:
"(d) the office of the Ethics Commissioner'';
(z) in clause 34, on page 23, by replacing lines 15 to 17, with the following:
"(c.1) the office of the Ethics Commissioner'';
(z.1) in clause 36, on page 24, by replacing lines 11 and 12, with the following:
"Commons, Library of Parliament and office of the'';
(z.2) in clause 37, on page 24,
(i) by replacing line 22, with the following:
"Parliament'', and
(ii) by replacing line 31, with the following:
"ment or'';
(z.3) in clause 38, on page 25, by replacing lines 12 and 13, with the following:
"any committee or member of either House or the Ethics Commis-'';
(z.4) in clause 40,
(i) on page 28,
(A) by replacing lines 4 and 5, with the following:
"communes, à la bibliothèque du Parlement ou'',
(B) by replacing lines 17 and 18, with the following:
"ment ou au commissariat à l'éthique par '',
(C) by replacing lines 28 and 29, with the following:
"House of Commons, Library of Parliament or office of'',
(D) by replacing lines 34 and 35, with the following:
"Library of Parliament or office of the Ethics Commis-'', and
(E) by replacing line 43, with the following:
"ment or'', and
(ii) on page 29,
(A) by replacing lines 2 and 3, with the following:
"House of Commons, Library of Parliament or office of'',
(B) by replacing line 13, with the following:
"ment or'',
(C) by replacing lines 19 and 20, with the following:
"brary of Parliament or office of the Ethics Commis-'',
(D) by replacing line 26, with the following:
"ment or'', and
(E) by replacing lines 38 and 39, with the following:
"Commons, Library of Parliament or office of the Ethics'', and
(iii) on page 30,
(A) by replacing lines 5 and 6, with the following:
"Library of Parliament or office of the Ethics Commis-'',
(B) by replacing lines 20 and 21, with the following:
"Library of Parliament or the office of the'',
(C) by replacing lines 25 and 26, with the following:
"Commons, the Library of Parliament or the'',
(D) by replacing lines 36 and 37, with the following:
"Commons, the Library of Parliament or the'', and
(E) by replacing lines 42 and 43, with the following:
"Parliament or the office of the Ethics Commis-''; and
(z.5) in clause 41, on page 31,
(i) by replacing lines 23 and 24, with the following:
"Commons, Library of Parliament and office of the'', and
(ii) by replacing lines 43 and 44, with the following:
"Commons, Library of Parliament and office of the''.
After debate,
Pursuant to the Order adopted on March 26, 2004, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Atkins, Beaudoin, Biron, Bryden, Cochrane, Comeau, Cools, Corbin, Di Nino, Eyton, Forrestall, Gustafson, Joyal, Keon, Kinsella, LeBreton, Lynch-Staunton, Meighen, Merchant, Moore, Nolin, Oliver, Rivest, Robertson, St. Germain, Sparrow, Stratton, Tkachuk—31
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Austin, Bacon, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chaput, Christensen, Cook, Cordy, Day, De Bané, Downe, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Graham, Harb, Hays, Hubley, Jaffer, Kirby, Kroft, LaPierre, Lapointe, Lawson, Léger, Losier-Cool, Maheu, Mahovlich, Massicotte, Mercer, Morin, Munson, Pearson, Pépin, Phalen, Poulin, Poy, Prud'homme, Ringuette, Robichaud, Roche, Rompkey, Sibbeston, Smith, Trenholme Counsell, Watt—51
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Banks
Lavigne—2
The question then being put on the motion of the Honourable Senator Austin, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., for the third reading of Bill C-4, An Act to amend the Parliament of Canada Act (Ethics Commissioner and Senate Ethics Officer) and other Acts in consequence, it was adopted on division.
Accordingly, the Bill was read the third time and passed, on division.
Ordered, That a Message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House that the Senate has passed this Bill, without amendment.
Third reading of Bill C-27, An Act for granting to Her Majesty certain sums of money for the public service of Canada for the financial year ending March 31, 2005.
The Honourable Senator Day moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Phalen, that the Bill be read the third time.
Debate.
___________________________________________________________
Ordered, That the Standing Senate Committee on Fisheries and Oceans have power to sit at 7:00 p.m. today even though the Senate may then be sitting, and that Rule 95(4) be suspended in relation thereto.
Pursuant to Rule 13(1), the Speaker left the Chair to resume the same at 8:00 p.m.
The sitting resumed.
Bills
The Senate resumed debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Day, seconded by the Honourable Senator Phalen, for the third reading of Bill C-27, An Act for granting to Her Majesty certain sums of money for the public service of Canada for the financial year ending March 31, 2005.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Bill was then read the third time and passed.
Ordered, That a Message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House that the Senate has passed this Bill.
___________________________________________________________
Ordered, That Order No. 2 under OTHER BUSINESS, Commons Public Bills, be brought forward.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Morin, seconded by the Honourable Senator Munson, for the third reading of Bill C-260, An Act to amend the Hazardous Products Act (fire-safe cigarettes).
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Bill was then read the third time and passed.
Ordered, That a Message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House that the Senate has passed this Bill, without amendment.
___________________________________________________________
Ordered, That Inquiry No. 10 standing in the name of the Honourable Senator Roche be brought forward.
INQUIRIES
The Honourable Senator Roche called the attention of the Senate to the historical role of women in the Canadian Senate and the challenges faced by modern women legislators to advance peace and human security.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Cools moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Jaffer, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
___________________________________________________________
Ordered, That all remaining Orders be postponed until the next sitting.
REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):
Report of the Canada Post Corporation for the year ended December 31, 2003, pursuant to the Privacy Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. P-21, sbs. 72(2).—Sessional Paper No. 3/37- 123.
ADJOURNMENT
The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool:
That the Senate do now adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
(Accordingly, at 8:39 p.m. the Senate was continued until 1:30 p.m. tomorrow.)
___________________________________________________________
Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 85(4)
Standing Senate Committee on National Finance
The names of the Honourable Senators Mercer and Hubley substituted for those of the Honourable Senators Day and Gauthier (March 29).
The name of the Honourable Senator Robichaud substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Ferretti Barth (March 30).
Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages
The name of the Honourable Senator Mercer substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Munson (March 29).
Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications
The name of the Honourable Senator LaPierre substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Jaffer (March 29).